Fun post today. A little break from the writing-related discussions we usually have. Well, sort of a break.
We were shopping for a microwave yesterday (and a hard drive, but this story is about the experience with the other necessity). The store clerk, a woman, greeted us, then assaulted us with reams of information. My husband, who can’t stand excessive chatter (yet he married me?), halted her when she started reading off what the buttons on the microwave clearly said. “We’re going to look around.” We spent about 30 minutes in the store pondering and opening microwave doors.
At a few points, we had questions. Reluctantly, we approached Chatty Cathy. She gave us the information (and a bit more than we needed), but she directed her comments to me. That’s fine, but I didn’t ask the questions. This had also occurred before he had stopped her mid-sentence. Interesting.
We pondered it in the car. Was she guilty of gender bias? Was she seeking a connection with the only portion of the equation who hadn’t put her off? Was she distracted by his good looks? That’s what I thought. 🙂 It didn’t matter. The fact that she couldn’t assess her client and adjust her pacing to meet his needs cost her a sale and left a him in a mood – one that will cause him to look elsewhere for the next appliance.
Devon Ellington is experiencing the opposite situation in her dealings with Apple over a faulty laptop. She feels her gender is getting in the way. The company seems less intent on solving the problem swiflty, instead possibly viewing her as a woman who has little knowledge of computers. If that’s the case, that’s damn disturbing. But it wouldn’t surprise me at all. I’ve had the same things happen. The funniest (for me, not for the salesman) was when a 20-something Toyota salesman showed me the car and then said, “And look at the pretty emblem.” I couldn’t help myself. I said, “Yea, that’s great, but what kind of torque does this engine deliver? What’s the top RPM? Does it come in turbo?” It was a lesson he learned instantly – don’t ever judge the abilities of your clients based on looks and gender.
I notice on this blog we have an uneven ratio of women-to-men in the comments. I wonder why. I appreciate all of you, but I’m curious as to why there are fewer male commenters. Any ideas? Men, feel free to enlighten us.
In my work, I have an equal number of male and female clients. I work equally well with all. And yes, I’ve had problems with clients in both categories. What I’ve never done is turn down work based on gender, even the dude who told me about the few years he decided to live as a female. (We turned him down because he was clearly breaking boundaries at the outset.)
I have had a few male interview subjects withhold a bit until they realize I know their industry. Is that gender or is that the insular nature of the industry? Hard to say. But it’s refreshing when you can hear in their voice the recognition – hey, she gets it! Many an interview that started on shaky ground ends with conversations that veered off the immediate topic and bordered on industry gossip.
There will be times when all of us will be judged first (and maybe finally) by our gender. Taking offense won’t help. What will help is acting professional and showing enough knowledge or interest to bring that client over to our side. Likewise, gender should not be the primary determination of how we approach our clients (though to some extent, don’t we use it?).
Thoughts? How does gender affect your interactions? Does it matter? Do you find yourself treating men differently than women? How? Have you ever been treated differently because of your gender?
Interestingly enough, the Apple Super Tech who fixed the problems yesterday was a woman. She understood everything I explained, and TAUGHT me how to perform specific actions on the computer, rather than the men with whom I dealt with this problem — in store, they simply removed the machine from my hands, did a bunch of stuff that didn't make sense without explaining, and handed back a machine that worked worse than before; on the phone, they reeled of a list of instructions, and when I asked the whens and whys, was shrugged off.
I also wonder why it took TWO WEEKS of "let's talk" messages to set up this session, instead of, as soon as I contacted the executive office with my displeasure, the immediate response being, "let's set up a session with a Super Tech." Instead, I was offered talk therapy, for two weeks, which no man would have put up with.
I also feel that, had a man walked in to the store on more than one occasion with a non-working computer, it would have been swapped out for a working one; yet, because I was a woman, I was sent from store to store like the little Apple errand girl, and then offered talk therapy as the first line of action when I said, "Enough already, I want a WORKING COMPUTER and I"m not putting another 143 miles on my car to get it."
I feel it's casual, almost unconscious sexism rather than blatant (like Dell's, where I said I wanted my home service contract honored and the guy said, "Women in my country do not make demands. I decide whether or not you get a service technician and you don't.")
Everyone at Apple was always very pleasant. But it still took over a month to fix a problem which should have taken a couple of hours. And I do believe that my gender played a part in that.
Not just in technology, but, in general, I find that casual sexism is on the rise again. Airline personnel treat men and women differently. Car salesmen often do. Many customer service techs do as far as the phone company, some of the stores, etc. Men ask for something and get a solution. Women are supposed to negotiate back to a lesser position.
I have to say I lucked out when I bought the last VW. I'd researched on the internet, located the car I wanted, walked into the showroom. The guy got up to greet me, I pointed to the car and said, "That one's mine." And within 30 minutes, it was.
I'd done my research, I knew everything I wanted, I asked very specific questions, and he totally respected that and went with me.
I was very definite when I walked into the showroom. In other words, I behaved more like a man does when he enters a car showroom. When I came in to Apple with a wonky computer, I was tentative, because it's not my area of expertise.
Of course, then there's the woman in the Apple Store who was there to buy her 4th iPhone in a month because she dropped the first down a toilet, dropped the second in a public pool, and left the third out in the rain, and couldn't understand that the warranty doesn't cover stupidity. Even in that case, her husband leaned forward to the tech with, "we're men, we can come to agreement on a free new phone" – the flip side of what we're talking about here, where the customer tries to use gender to get what he wants. It cuts both ways.
I am happy to say it was not granted.
That was a case where equal opportunity stupidity was not rewarded.
Someone I know has a father-in-law who returned 8 computers. Eight. Why? Because they were all flawed! After number eight, however, he was told he wasn't getting a ninth, so this one needed to suffice. He raised almighty hell, but the manager held firm. If you can't work a computer, it's not the store's, the company's, or the computer's fault.
Our husbands have a lot in common.
I have a speech thing going on and my voice can come across as kind of a male voice when talking to people on the phone.(it's hard to explain) I confess that there have been a couple of times where they thought I was MR. X and I just went with it. In those cases, I didn't have as much of a problem.
These are the same customer reps I have talked to the day before when I told them I was MRS. X. So, yes I believe Gender does come into play sometimes.
The only time I recall feeling a gender bias was when I was in college (living at home for financial reasons). The old refrigerator was broken. Again. Dad called a service tech. The guy unclogged a drain tube and did a couple other simple fixes. Dad was standing right there, dealing with the repairman when I happened to walk by – I wasn't even in the actual room, mind you – and the repairman tells me, "When you clean the refregerator, be sure to…." I didn't let him finish. I blurted out, "Why are you telling me this? It's HIS refrigerator."
Hey. I grew up in a family where the guys do the dishes. When my brother and sister-in-law redesigned their kitchen, the designer (a woman) was asking my s-i-l about the sink. S-i-l said, "Whatever he wants. He'll be using it more than I will."
But in the workplace, I haven't encountered any noticeable biases – then again, I have no idea if male writers are being paid the same as I am or not.
Carrie, I do believe we're living the same life in different locations. 🙂
Really neat observation, Wendy! I won't say that gender bias is always the root of all interactions, but it's interesting when it does come into play. Can we help ourselves? Weren't we raised with the same stereotypes we're now trying to disspell? Volumes have been written on it.
Paula, in my isolated experience at one particular publication group, yes, men are paid more. That goes all the way from management right through to the freelancers. I won't say it's common practice in the industry. To the contrary, I think if it were, we'd be well aware of it and raising holy hell.
Why so few male comment-ers?
2 words:
You're married
(OK kinda 3 words, but I see the contraction as the glue that holds together a great marriage between 2 happy words; so I treat them as one. Not so unlike Lori and Husband Widmer want to be treated? No?)
Alas my pessimistic outlook on men and the Internet has reared it's ugly head.
I've decided not to lay claim to this comment after all.
As sometimes (not) IMHO.
Sid.
So much for your break, Lori — this post is rich with discussion material!
First of all, lack of male commenters — I have found the same thing, not only in blog comments, but in colleagues in general. I think more women take the leap to freelance full-time. It probably has to do with society putting a lot of pressure on men to be the breadwinners, combined with the general idea that freelancers can't earn a good living. We all know that's not true, but people who haven't tried it often perceive it that way, and I think that probably scares a lot of men off because they have society's expectations to try to fill.
Now that's not to say men aren't writers. But honestly, if you're not doing it full-time it really changes how you function in the industry. If you have a full-time job and write on the side, you've got less time for writing, and therefore you want to spend what time you've got ON writing — not marketing, blogging, etc. Again, we all know how important marketing is, but the people I know who write on the side (mostly men, in my experience) very seldom view it as a business.
Now, as for the gender thing — I'm surprised no one has mentioned the obvious here, and commented on how often we see it in our own line of work. We've all seen those ads that say, "This would be a great job for a stay-at-home mom," suggesting that it's somehow easy or trying to justify the low pay. Honestly, I suspect that a lot of our problems with low writing rates actually have to do with the fact that we are women, and women's industries are notoriously underpaid.
Regarding differences in pay rates, when I freelance with small business clients/individual entrepreneurs, I rarely run into a problem. Get into corporate clientele, and I've notice distinct gender bias on several occasions — sometimes where I knew male writers going for the same job who weren't hassled about the price, but I was told I was "too expensive" — and we offered the same rate.
Once, I was turned down for a job because I wouldn't lower my rate. As an experiment, a male friend took my resume, put his name on it, submitted it, and he was offered the job at the rate I originally quoted.
Kinda funny, kinda not.
TOPIC #1 (Gender bias in sales & customer service) — Though I've come to accept that we live in world that will always be home to racist, sexist, ageist, etc. individuals (sigh), I remain stunned by the degree to which these prejudices permeate what should be professional interactions.
As a customer, I've been on what I guess could be described as both sides of the experience (white car salesman assuming it would be OK to share a few racist comments with me cuz I'm a white guy, too — it wasn't OK; suit saleswoman addressing all comments to my fiance because as a heterosexual male I must be incapable of making fashion decisions about the clothes *I* am buying & *I* will be wearing). Every time, I've been disappointed by (a) the personal shortcomings of the "professional" in question and (b) the failure of these people & their supervisors to grasp the concept that when you punch in in the morning, you cease being "just a person" & become the public face & voice of your organization.
Flawed personal philosophy + poor business acumen = Fail.
I realize we have a long way to go toward achieving anything resembling a racial/ethnic/gender/etc. harmony in this nation (seen a tea party or a townhall meeting on the news recently?), but on a purely professional level there is *no* excuse for a sales person or customer service rep to not understand that wimmin-folk can buy computers, understand the car-buying process & pick up the check at dinner — & that big ol' strappin' guys occasionally do dishes, shop for their own clothes or even (gasp!) cook a meal.
[Climbs down from soapbox, mops brow, takes deep, cleansing breaths.]
TOPIC #2 (Male commenters — or lack thereof — @ Words on the Page). I'm rarely confident that I completely understand the inner workings of my own mind, so I'm not about to attempt to speak for every man with an Internet connection & an interest in writing-related blogs. But I attribute my relative lack of commenting to the fact that on most days I feel as though Lori & the "regulars" have a much firmer grasp on the day's topic than I do, & express themselves much more clearly & intelligently than I could hope to. So, in lieu of offering an "exactly!" or a "me, too!" I just read, bask in the collected knowledge, & consider myself better for the experience.
Then I go do the dishes & hope my fiance can figure out what's wrong with the car when she gets home from work 🙂
Lack of male comments? Don't worry your pretty little head, darlin'
Kirk, that shoe I just whipped? Did the heel end hit you or were you fortunate to catch just the toe? 😉
Hugh, you ARE a regular! I love your breakdown of the sales experience and what's required versus what we get. All too true. Perhaps the problem is many salesfolk don't understand that the job is more than the paycheck alone. They know how to shmooze, but do they understand to whom they are shmoozing? It's what I said about the female salesperson who couldn't adjust your pacing – you have to meet your customers' needs, especially in communication. That's why I contend not everyone can be a successful writer. Writers don't just spill words onto a page. They capture their clients' and their clients' audiences' voices.
Sid, married people enjoy talking to single people, too. 😉 I suspect what you're driving at is the notion that women, once married and sometimes after, segregate themselves by their subject matter or their communication style. I've heard the term "hen party" used once too often (and the last person to use it, a female, was immediately sorry she'd brought it up with me). I for one need the mix of male/female opinions and presences. It's just a much better conversation.
Katharine, I'm with you on the sheer number of women in freelancing, but I've got a ton of male counterparts without whom I'd think the industry would be sorely lacking. And the low pay? Yea, we women often accept it. Part of the blame does have to rest on our shoulders.
Devon, I need only look to my last job. I was paid about $15K less than the dolt in the next office who wrote his first feature five years into his tenure. I'd had about 40 under my belt in the year and a half I was there. In fact, that whole office reeked of discrimination. Girls were paid much less than boys. The one writer colleague, who'd been there a few years longer than I had, made a paltry $25K. She left after she found out the male admin was paid $28K to start.
Like I said, I deny all association with that comment and the person who claims to be Sid that made it!
(the real one and only) Sid.
No imposters, eh Sid? 😉